(posted Monday, due Thursday, by 8 am)
We have discussed Moll (1722) and begun to discuss Anne and the others of Persuasion (1816). In the world of Jane Austen, circa 1800, why do people visit Bath (health, love, society [what does that mean?], finances)? Find two reasons for going to Bath which represent two characters' distinct rationale for visiting or living at Bath. Give a quote each which shows this rationale and discuss. How are these reasons different from or similar to Moll's rationale?
(Rather than retype quotes you may find it easier once you know which quotes you want to go this e-text of Persuasion (html by chapters) or that e-text of Persuasion (all one text file.)
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The reason for going to Bath for the Elliot's is somewhat similar to the motivations for Moll Flanders going. One reason is that the Baronet has run out of money and needs to downgrade to a smaller estate, much like when Moll goes to Bath to find herself another gentleman to gain her status. In chapter 2, the motivations of Lady Russell to go for the health benefits and the social atmosphere.
"Lady Russell was fond of Bath, in short, and disposed to think it must suit them all; and as to her young friend's health, by passing all the warm months with her at Kellynch Lodge, every danger would be avoided; and it was, in fact, a change which must do both health and spirits good. Anne had been too little from home, too little seen. Her spirits were not high. A larger society would improve them."
Another side of Bath as described by Austen is the social standing of the other residents. As Sir Walter has to face the reality of his loss of wealth, his rank-conscious mindset looks at Bath as a way to be without money, but still have his title and reputation in tact.
"It was a much safer place for a gentleman in his predicament: he might there be important at comparatively little expense. Two material advantages of Bath over London had of course been given all their weight: its more convenient distance from Kellynch, only fifty miles, and Lady Russell's spending some part of every winter there; and to the very great satisfaction of Lady Russell, whose first views on the projected change had been for Bath, Sir Walter and Elizabeth were induced to believe that they should lose neither consequence nor enjoyment by settling there."
The opportunity of a place where health and wealth can mix together for people looking to keep or attain an upper class status such as Moll (looking to attain it) and the Elliot's (look to maintain it), it shows the dynamic nature and influence the location had on class relations.
“Sir Walter had at first thought more of London; but Mr. Shepherd felt that he could not be trusted in London, and had been skillful enough to dissuade him from it, and make Bath preferred. It was a much safer place for a gentleman in his predicament: he might there be important at comparatively little expense. Two material advantages of Bath over London had of course been given all their weight: its more convenient distance from Kellynch, only fifty miles, and Lady Russell's spending some part of every winter there; and to the very great satisfaction of Lady Russell, whose first views on the projected change had been for Bath, Sir Walter and Elizabeth were induced to believe that they should lose neither consequence nor enjoyment by settling there”(chap. 2, pg.11 of The Modern Library Edition).
This section of chapter two demonstrates why Bath is so reasonable to live at. For Sir Walter, Bath is safer in the fact that he will be able to still live like he wants to (maintain his status and enjoy his material goods), but with little cost to him. Also, Bath is closer to Kellynch that London would be which would prove more convenient when it comes to traveling. For both Sir Walter and Elizabeth, Lady Russell will also be there during the winter, which will prove for good company. Compared to Moll Flanders, the reasoning is very similar. Both characters chose to go to Bath because of Status. Moll goes to Bath to achieve a greater status by finding a wealthy man. Sir Walter goes to Bath in order to maintain his status, and the lifestyle he is accustomed to.
“When Lady Russell, not long afterwards, was entering Bath on a wet afternoon, and driving through the long course on streets from the Old Bridge to Camden place, midst the dash of other carriages, they heavy rumble of carts and drays, the baling of newsmen, muffin-men, and milkmen, and the ceaseless clink of pattens, she made no complaint. No, these were noises with belonged to the winter pleasures; her spirits rose under their influence; and like Mrs. Musgrove, she was feeling, though not saying, that after being long in the country, nothing could be so good for her as a little quiet cheerfulness” (chap. 14, page 97).
This quote shows that one reason Lady Russell is visiting Bath is due to the commotion that she does not experience in the country. In the country, it is a quieter, with less distractions and energy. Having experienced it first hand, after a while, the country lifestyle tends to become boring. Then, to go from tranquility to energy, one can become quite revitalized. Lady Russell’s reason, compared to Moll Flanders is quite different. Lady Russell is going for the atmosphere and the lifestyle. Moll is going for a distinct purpose, which is to gain status (something Lady Russell already has).
The reasons for Moll Flanders to go to Bath, and for the Elliots to go are deceptively similiar but in the end very different.
Moll had initially gone to Bath because it was a place in which no one knew who she was and she could be whoever she pleased, and when she returned to stay at Bath for a time it was because, "I liv'd rather cheaper there than I could do anywhere else."
While people still do go to Bath because it is a cheap place to live and it considered good for ones health in Anne's time, there is also another reason for people to go to Bath. This reason was that Bath had become a place for people to gather there for a season, and it became a place where people held "society" or rather, socialized. This is demonstrated by the line in chapter 16, "The Bath paper one morning announce the arrival of the Dowager Viscountess Darlymple." This demonstrates that this was not the Bath of Moll Flanders where people would be unknown, but a place where people went and that they wanted it to be known that they went there. While this had been started during the time of Defoe it was not in practice during Moll Flanders. Also, the work of John Woods jr. and sr. had helped to make it a place for people to gather in order to enjoy "society."
"but he [Sir Walter] had now been a fortnight in Bath, and his first object, on arriving, had been to leave his card in Camden-place, following it up by such assiduous endeavours to meet, and, when they did meet, by such great openness of conduct, such readiness to apologize for the past, such solicitude to be received as a relation again, that their former good understanding was completely re-established."
-Austen is discussing the issue of place in society not socially, but in relation to geography. Mr. Elliot is pointing out that that their family may not be significant in London b/c of their current financial situation, but in Bath they can move around some of the upperclass (prominent) social circles.
"Will it not be wiser to accept the society of these good ladies in Laura-place, and enjoy all the advantages of connexion as far as possible? You may depend upon it, that they will move in the first set in Bath this winter, and as rank is rank, your being known to be related to them will have its use in fixing your famiy (our family let me say) in that degree of consideration which we must all wish for."
-Mr Elliot is talking to Anne about taking advantage of her relationship with their cousins the Darymples. Anne still has a bit of pride and doesn't see the point in moving from Kellynch Hall where they are the prominent people to being below their cousins whom she doesn't see as being above her. Mr. Elliot's motivations are sort of like Sir Walter's in that he wants to be in Bath to take advantage of moving up in society.
-In relation to Moll Flanders, she is moving to Bath to find a mate. She knows that in Bath she can pose as a higher class because no one knows her, she can easily move up the ladder as long as money holds out until she finds someone. So in some ways they are similar in that Bath is a place to move up, however for the Elliots its the fact that people do know them (the Darymples) that they can move up. For Moll its the lack of identity that can move her up.
People traveled to Bath to restore their health (Admiral and Mrs. Croft), to maintain status on a low budget (Sir Walter Elliot) to visit friends, and to shop (The Musgroves). Various characters in Jane Austen’s Persuasion use one of these excuses to go to Bath (the former Las Vegas of England).
In the very beginning Sir Walter Elliot, who lives well beyond his means, is forced with a decision. Either to remain at Kellynch Hall and live less extravagantly, to which Sir Walter replied, “What! Every comfort of life knocked off! Journey’s, London, servants, horses, table, --contractions and restrictions every where. To live no longer with the decencies ever of a private gentleman!” (17) Or, he must “retrench,” to London, Bath, or another small country house. In the end, he chooses Bath, where he is less likely to get into more monetary trouble.
Mr. Elliot—heir to Kellynch Hall—journeys to Bath to re-establish his connection with a family he wanted nothing to do with previously. “Having long had as much money as he could spend, nothing to wish for on the side of avarice or indulgence, he has been gradually learning to pin his happiness upon the consequence he is heir to.” (166) Thus, when he gets word that Ms. Clay might have designs on Sir Walter, “He [Mr. Elliot] cannot bear the idea of not being Sir William.” (166) The character of Mr. Elliot is the one that reminds me most of Moll Flanders--except he is not as extreme.
Moll’s journey to Bath, like the two examples, deals with money as well as living well, while remaining poor. She goes to Bath after returning from America, and after loosing most of her possessions while on route from America. Thus, like many people, Bath for Molls becomes a place to start anew on little money. However, Sir Walter has no designs on seeking love and wealth in Bath (at least I did not sense that from Austen’s writing). The Elliot clan is looking for a place where they could maintain some dignity in their reduced circumstances. However, for Moll Flanders, Bath is a bust becomes it is a place where a female in her situation can become a mistress but not a wife.
It is very obvious why individuals would want to live in Bath in Jane Austen's time. Some of them were for various fun and idile times. Others however would be forced to live in Bath because it was a much cheaper place to live than having your own estate in the country, or movin to London. Sir Walter falls into this category. His decisions is discussed when it is said, "It was a much safer place for a genleman in his predicament- he might there be important at comparatively little expense." This shows Sir Walters pride and how much he wanted to maintain his status even thought he could not maintain his house. He was a Baronet and knew that he needed some where that thought his family was still important, even without the big estate. Bath happened to fit into this for him, with some influence of course from various people around him.
Lady Russell is very fond of Bath because she feels as though is a very refined society that is good for people that live and go there. She thinks, "Lady Russell was fond of Bath in short, and disposed to think it must suit them all; and as to her young friend's health, by passing all the warm months with her at Kellynch-lodge, every danger would be avoided; and it was, in fact, a change which must do both health and spirits good." Bath represnted to her a different kind of society, a way to escape, without having to step down. She felt it would be good for the children in Bath to grow up.
Sir Walter's reasons I feel are very similar to that of Moll's. Moll knew she could go to Bath and live some what within her means, although she was also looking for a man. They both felt bath was the place for them at at time when they needed to tighten their belts and really watch their finances.
Sir Walter and Elizabeth leave for Bath out of necessity. It is cheaper to live in Bath than in Kellynch Hall, and less expensive accomodations are necessary to help Sir Walter out of his massive debts. Bath still maintains a high enough status as a trendy meeting place for the wealthy, though. Bath was chosen because Sir Walter could maintain his high status, without being questioned about his finances. He can save some money, and still be seen by Britain's elite. Austen writes "Their two confidential friends, Mr Shepherd, who lived in the neighbouring market town, and Lady Russell, were called to advise them;
and both father and daughter seemed to expect that something should be struck out by one or the other to remove their embarrassments
and reduce their expenditure, without involving the loss of
any indulgence of taste or pride."
Moll goes to Bath for a similar reason. She can live there fashionably yet more modestly than her previous home. Bath is full of people who have money and operates as a retreat from their normal lives. It has operated as a retreat ever since the Romans built the first baths there. So, there is a chance Moll can snare an eligible bachelor, which she succeeds in doing. Her new lover, though has come to Bath in ill health, much like Admiral Croft, and thousands of others throughout the years Defoe writes "He consented, and I brought him to the Bath, which was about fifteen miles, as I remember. Here he continued very ill of a fever, and kept his bed five weeks, all which time I nursed him and tended him myself, as much and as carefully as if I had been his wife."
So, both works show Bath as both a resort-like area for the rich and a common healing spot for the sick. Of course, to be in Bath the sick were also wealthy. For the most part, Bath was a place for people of higher wealth, though we did see the hospital in the city established for the less wealthy. Moll also buys a great deal of fine new clothes in Bath with the help of her new friend. Which, as the museum of costume showed, Bath was a common place for extravagant shopping.
Defoe and Austen paint similar pictures of Bath as a trendy spot for the wealthy.
Generally speaking, while Moll Flanders and the Elliot’s are on two opposite sides of the class spectrum, they both go to Bath for the same reasons, so they could run away from their problems and because you can live their cheaply. This was a place where you could go and hide your history and make a name for yourself.
In the case of the Elliot’s, Sir Walter has run the family into debt due to his frivolous spending habits. They need to be able to find a place to retreat where it will be cheaper than living in Kellynch Hall. They come up with three available options of going to London, Bath, or a smaller house still in the village.
“Sir Walter had at first thought more of London, but Mr. Shepherd felt that he could not be trusted in London, and had been skilful enough to dissuade him from it, and make Bath preferred, It was a much safer place for a gentleman in his predicament-he might there be important at comparatively little expense.”
This was also an area where Lady Russell frequently travelled in the winter months so there relationship could continue which seemed very favourable to the Elliot’s. Also, Bath was much closer then London which made it much more convenient of a move for the family. “Lady Russell was fond of Bath and disposed to think it must suit them all…”
In Moll’s case she goes to Bath after just leaving her brother/husband in America. Though “as it were, (she) was a woman of fortune, tho’ (she) was a woman without a fortune” this seemed to be a good place where she could find a way to change her fortunes and gain money. Also, this was a place to hide and where no one would no her past or her name even.
Bath was a place that people ran away from their problems, and still gained even more problems. It was a place where people went to become healthy and yet many people died in Bath. It is almost a contradiction in itself, but the Elliot’s and Moll Flanders fled problems they had in other places to try and start a new in Bath.
"Sir Walter had at first thought more of London; but Mr. Shepherd felt that he could not be trusted in London, and had been skilful enough to dissuade him from it, and make Bath preferred. It was a much safer place for a gentleman in his predicament: he might there be important at comparatively little expense."
This is a good example of why they chose to go to Bath. Sir Walter was not about to admit to the public that he ws losing his fortune. Going to Bath was very financially smart place for them to go. Just tha fact that they were not paying for the expenses to keep up their estate, but they were also getting rent for it. So Bath was a good city to go to because he knew he and his family could go their and still be seen and appear to not be in any financial problems at all.
"Lady Russell was fond of Bath, in short, and disposed to think it must suit them all; and as to her young friend's health, by passing all the warm months with her at Kellynch Lodge, every danger would be avoided; and it was, in fact, a change which must do both health and spirits good."
Lady Russel has similar views on why to go to Bath. ifeel for the most part she has spent alot of time there and really enjoys being there. She think like Sir Walter in the fact that they can go there and not appear to be any poorer then they did back in their estate. She seems to think it is a very fun town. She is saying everyone will have a good time while they are there.
Both Moll and the Elliots go there for some financial reason. Moll is there because she wants to be in a town that nobody knows her in and find a man with some money to take care of her. So if Moll would have meat Sir Walter there, she probably could have been upset when she found out they he was there to help get himself out of debt. Bath seems like a place where just about anybody can go to change their current financial state. And it also seems Bath has a reputation for being a good time which also attracts both people.
The main reason that Sir Walter goes to Bath is to save money. Not only does he need to save money, but also his reputation. Bath is the perfect place because no one knows him there and it gives him room to create a new identity and meet new higher class people. When they arive in Bath, "They were perpetually having cards left by people of whom they knew nothing."
Bath works well for Sir Walter. Moll also goes to bath to meet people who know nothing of her. She also needs to re-create herself in order to obtain money. However while Moll is looking for a husband, Sir Walter is just looking for a good reputation.
Another reason to go to Bath used in both books is because of a man in Bath. Moll goes to Bath to find a man to marry in order to obtain money to survive. Both Lady Russell and Ms. Clay go to Bath to follow Sir Walter. While Lady Russell's intentions are honorable, Ms. Clay is only there looking to marry Sir Walter. Lady Russell is not pleased with this.
"Lady Russell's composed mind and polite manners were put to some trial on this point, in her intercourse in Camden Place. The sight of Ms. Clay in such favour, and of Anne so overlooked, was a perpetual provocation to her there; and vexed her as much when she was away, as a person in Bath who drinks the water, gets all the new publications, and has a very large acquaintance, has time to be vexed."
The shift in attention from Anne to Ms. Clay is exactly why she follows Sir Walter there in the first place. Like Moll she is in Bath on a different kind of business.
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