Sunday, June 10, 2007
blog query week one
(Should be due Sunday, but I just posted it and most of you are on weekend journeys; due Monday evening, 11 June) Does a woman experience the social hierarchy of 18th century England differently from a man? Either give a couple of examples (and explanation) of how women had a different experience of class/status relations from men. Or give a couple of examples (and explanation) of how class/status relations are experienced differently when you are at the bottom of the hierarchy (poor, criminal, etc.) than when you are at the top (gentry, gentlewoman, etc.). Use Defoe's Moll Flanders and Celie Fiennes' travel diary.
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It seems that women in the 18th century of higher class had a somewhat easier time in life; as demonstrated in Moll Flanders and Celie Fiennes'journal. Celie writes mostly about walking and travelling to different places in England. She seems more like a "woman of leisure" and is afforded both the opportunity and the means to do all this travelling. She does not write about money or work but about the sights she sees and the people she spends her time with. Moll Flanders is a different sort. She is constantly worrying about money and where she will get it. She only travels to find a new husband or to escape an existing one, not so much for fun or just the experience of it. She does not have the opportunity to travel about without purpose let alone write about all the sights she can see on the way. Celie does not mention men often whereas Defoe focuses on Moll's relationship to men. Moll needs men to exist. Without a husband, she can't seem to earn money honestly. In this way, Moll has a harder time in life than the men around her. Celie does not present herself in relation to the men around her, which suggests that she does not have to concern herself with them on a dependant basis.
Men and women in the 18th century were quite similar as compared to later centuries. In Moll Flanders, Moll is enveloped by an individualistic hierarchical society. People are not grouped into classes "in itself" which makes mobility generally easier. During this time tours are available to the elite as in Celia Feines case, but also to the people capable of paying for the lavish behavior as Moll exhibits in her trips with her many husbands. In Defoe's view of society during that time men and women constantly had to struggle and work to keep their status. Moll would spend her last 200 pounds on a dress to make her look rich to catch a man while with Celia she doesn't seem concerned with men, she doesn't have to be she is of a higher class and isn't dependent upon them. As far as the comparison between men and women, the gentleman tradesman and Gemy both show that men as well as women had to work to keep their status. Its a big facade that, though some get lucky and end up wealthy, others spend their last savings to push themselves farther and farther in debt. Its a sad turn of events really.
Class relations play a very pivotal roll in anybody's lives during the 18th century. It was something that one could never seem to escape, no matter how they fougt. The difference in the experiences from top to bottom is very one that is quite obvious in Moll Flanders and Celie Fiennes. Moll leads a life that is about survival. Survival in her case is not losing what little money she has in order to survive. She is not of a gentry status, therefore she does not have the same priviledges as those that do. She must work or steal, in order to keep her head above water. Celie Fiennes does not have to worry about these things, because they are handed to her. She travels around with no worries of marrying somebody with money or anything of the sort, because she is upper-class and therefore it is assumed that she does need to work or do anything besides travel and such. The upperclass did not know the meaning of the word survival in the 18th century, they knew of the word priveledge because that is what the class system upholds.
It seems to me that in the 18th century women are more reliant on men than in todays world. Especially in the lower class. In Flanders Moll spends most of her time working and scheming to get a husband so that she can have money and live comfortably. Now while we do learn later that it is possible to make a living while being a woman, through the needle or through crime, most of the book focuses on ways that Moll Flanders works to obtain a husband and the deception she uses to appear wealthy so that she can gain that husband and not have to worry about money. While it seems in that if you are a woman born in the upper class, a husband is a need only for gain within the social world and not so much in the financial world. Celie Fiennes seems to go through life traveling and enjoying the world by herself with no need for men because she is already financially well off. But there was a sort of stigma associated with "old maids" that they weren't able to get a husband, they may still have been wealthy but probably not as powerful in the social world.
To me it seems like obviously people of a higher class, men or woman, had life much easier then people of a higher class. Moll Flanders was from a lower class but was fortunate enough to be raised by a family of a higher class. This could have been a bad thing for her because she had a taste of how good the upper class was and spent the rest of her life doing whatever she had to not to fall back into the lower class, or at least appear she had not been from a lower class. It also seems that it was much harder for a woman of a lower class to rise up to a higher class, unless she could find a husband that would marry her. These were hard to find because on of the main reason husbands chose their wives was because of what she could bring to his family. Celia Fiennes on the other hand seemed to come from a higher class. This is made apparent because of all the traveling she has done. She was doing these this traveling as a leisure pursuit. Where as the only reason Moll would travel would be to escape a marriage or a bad reputation that might soon be coming to her. Celia then would not have to worry about impressing everyman she saw because she did not need them to live the lifestyle that she enjoys.
Looking at both the book Moll Flanders and Celia Fiennes' diary of her travels, I believe that women do indeed have a different social hierarchy then men do. First, I would like to say that it seems that women had an easier time in life. The reason I say that is because men were the ones who were expected to go out and take care of the business, while women were expected to be home being “ladies”. In the matter of Moll Flanders, because she was in the lower ranks of society, she had a harder time. Moll was brought up as a servant for a wealthy, kind family. Because of this, Moll was able to learn along side the daughters of the family, and educate herself, which in normal conditions would not happen. Moll also knew of what it was like to be a lady because of the experiences she had, and learned of what it would be like if she was not a servant. Celia on the other hand was much better off then Moll, having a higher position in social hierarchy for sure, though possibly no higher than middle class. She was a woman of time, if you would like to say it that way, only because it is apparent that she was not worried about working and making a life for herself that way. Due to her travel diary, you are able to gather that she had the money that allowed her to travel as much as she did. Between both ladies, it is easy to determine that Celia Fiennes was better off than Moll Flanders.
In eighteenth-century society a woman social standing depended greatly on either her father or her husband’s position. In many instances the behaviour and actions of women were more guarded in order to maintain their “reputation.” Having mistresses for a man was a right of passage, being a mistress for females was a social taboo.
Celia Fiennes’ travel diary illuminates the meanderings of a middle-class woman able to afford leisure travel, and reflective journaling. She is allowed to tour stately homes, but is accompanied by her two cousins. Is this to maintain propriety, to avoid scandalous talk, to avoid potentally dangerous situtation? I believe it would be wrong to overlook the possibility. This shows that single women—of relatively high social standing—were less likely to travel solo. The fear of highwaymen and rogues made many families subscribe to the ideology of “safety in numbers.” This reference can also be seen in Moll Flanders when she is believed to be afraid of travelling the roads after the highwayman has struck.
Moll Flanders travelled by herself. However, she was always travelling as a “widow” or a “married” woman. Her adventures as a single woman were always in conjunction with her loose morality and her schemes.
I agree with Kelly, to an extent. I do believe that the women of different standing do have different experiences and views pertaining to class, but I also believe that they both suffer from a form of what Erich would call "class anxiety."
Yes, Celia Fiennes is a woman of leisure. She can afford to travel and see the sights of England without having to worry about the cost of such a trip. However, her focus shows that she is still concerned with her place in the world. Her descriptions always tend to focus towards things that would imply status and money. An example of this would be the number of windows that Chatsworth has, or the number of stairs on a stair case, as if to remind herself how much such items must have cost the owner. While men would be involved in the aquiring of such things women seem to have a much more passive role, but they are by no means excluded from it.
On the other end of the spectrum Moll Flanders is equally concious of her class and position, though her lack of standing is continually driven home and influences all of her actions. Moll is in many ways dependent on men of a higher standing, as demonstarted by her marriages to the sea captain(her brother) or to Jemy (who turned out to be the same as her). While Celia is in no doubt the position that she is in because of a man, either her father or husband, if she was left alone with the death of either she would be well taken care of, something that seems to elude Moll. In 18th century English society women of all strata were deondant on men, but the level of depenancy differed.
Women see to have a more difficult time with class in 18th century Britain because their status is inextricably linked to their husband, or father if they are not married. The Elliots in Persuasion are entirely concerned with class. Anne was unable to marry Cpt. Wentworth before he attained his higher status. Wentworth was able to increase his status on his own, a feat Anne and her sisters must marry to accomplish.
A man, though born into status, can always make his fortune and move up the ranks. A woman seems to have a harder time moving up on here own. Once one of Moll Flanders' husbands die, she has only his estate left to live on, eventually turning her to a life of crime. It's a fairly inflexible system to begin with, then women have even less flexibility than their male counterparts.
Both sexes, though, need to uphold the appearance of status by acting proper for place in society and for their sex. So, there is a great deal of societal pressure on both. Inevitably, though, I believe women had the more difficult time in the class because developing an individual class identity was much harder.
Moll Flanders is an example of social mobility through relationships. Moll only achieves what she wants through the other high class people she associates with, which a man would deal with as well. I think what is really behind the idea of class is a networking system of people who consciously set themselves apart from the rest of society. An example is the luxuries afforded to a woman like Celie Fiennes in her travels. Maybe its a "keeping with the Jonses" kind of way to look at it, however it seems that the representation of wealth and upper class is the illusion of materials and leisure time. Even with the working class there are things like going to the local pub after work create a sense of bonding between the other members of a class. The example of the thieves Moll hooks up with identifies this as well. And because of this inter-class cohesion, one can identify who is rich and who isn't. If you are poor and in London, you do not really have time to travel seeing as your funds run out as the trip goes on, unlike for the wealthy who have reserves to burn. Also, the definition of what it is to be wealthy changes to keep out those who don't belong.
However I think what is the same about the dichotomous classes is the necessity of the relationships between not only the nuclear family, but also of other members of the same social standing. People can certainly be rich or poor and be single, however I think as a social survival method the inter-class networking is essential to not only class identity, but class consciousness.
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